In this comment...
http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/have-we-profoundly-misunderstood-harvard-evolutionary-biologist-richard-lewontin-in-his-jan-1997-nyrb-article-billions-and-billions-of-demons/comment-page-1/#comment-404416
...eugene s says:
"The same goes with other sins, such as fornication (promiscuity)&c."
Let's take a look at some definitions of "fornication":
From: http://www.christiananswers.net/dictionary/fornication.html
“The Greek word for ‘fornication’ (porneia) could include any sexual sin committed after the betrothal contract. …In Biblical usage, ‘fornication’ can mean any sexual congress outside monogamous marriage. It thus includes not only premarital sex, but also adultery, homosexual acts, incest, remarriage after un-Biblical divorce, and sexual acts with animals, all of which are explicitly forbidden in the law as given through Moses (Leviticus 20:10-21). Christ expanded the prohibition against adultery to include even sexual lusting (Matthew 5:28).”
And from: http://christianlibrary.org/authors/Douglas_R_Young/misc/fornication.htm
The majority of our Greek authorities are generally in line with one another as to the meaning of the word fornication. Fornication is derived from the Greek word, (pornea) and refers to some form of illicit sexual intercourse in general. Fornication can be committed between a man and woman, a man and man, a woman and a woman, or a man/woman and an animal. Our English term “pornography” is also derived from this Greek word. Webster’s Comprehensive Dictionary (Encyclopedia Edition) defines fornication as “Illicit sexual intercourse of unmarried persons.” Though this term is most commonly used to describe sexual relations outside of marriage, it is not limited to unmarried people because Jesus allows “fornication” as an exception to scripturally divorce a spouse (Matt. 5:32, 19:9). Therefore, a married person can commit fornication just as an unmarried person can.
Why is Fornication Wrong?
The Bible unequivocally condemns the committing of fornication by anyone, saint or sinner alike. The apostle Paul deals with this subject on several occasions in the epistles that he penned. The Christians at Thessalonica were commanded by him to abstain from fornication (I Thessalonians 4:3). In his epistle to the churches of Galatia, he classified fornication as one of the works of the flesh that can prevent one from entering into the kingdom of God (Galatians 5:19-21). In the book of Romans he reflects upon the status of many Gentiles of the long ago when he stated,
“Wherefore God gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonor their own bodies between themselves…For this cause God gave them up to vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: and likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. Even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness…” (Romans 1:24, 26-29a).
This passage alone should be enough to convince the world that fornication and homosexuality are anything but pleasing to the eyes of the Almighty God. Nowhere does the apostle Paul deal with this problem in greater detail than in the book of I Corinthians. He deals with this problem throughout this book. In chapter 5, he deals with a particular situation of one that was committing fornication with his father’s wife. The church at Corinth had failed to properly teach, admonish, and discipline this individual. In chapter 6, Paul condemns fornication in vv. 9-20. Likewise, he deals with this problem from a different perspective in chapter 7 saying, “Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let everyman have his own wife…” (v. 2). In chapter 10:8 he warns them to avoid fornication unlike those in Numbers 25 who committed fornication with the daughters of Moab.
These passages explain to us that fornication is wrong, but what makes it wrong? There are two passages that should be discussed in order to set in order the reason that fornication is wrong. First let us notice I Timothy 5:14. Paul writes to the young preacher, “I will that younger women marry, bear children, guide the house, give none occasion to the adversary to speak reproachfully.” This is God’s plan for the woman. Notice that bearing children comes after the command to marry. Why, because the sexual relationship is confined ONLY to the marriage relationship. Sexual intercourse between two unwed persons is wrong. Second, let us go to the book of Hebrews. The penman of the book makes it clear in chapter 13:4 that “Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.” When a married person commits fornication with another, that individual has defiled his/her marriage bed. Once again, the sexual relationship is confined to married couples and married couples only!
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Hey eugene, were adam and eve legally married? Where did they get the license and who performed the marriage? Did they honeymoon in Las Vegas? Where did the women come from that cain and abel lusted for? Did they fornicate incestually with their mother and/or sisters? Were they married to their mother and/or sisters? Since cain allegedly killed abel, that would have left just one son of adam and eve at that time (seth came along later to join the incestual fornication fest). So, when cain fornicated incestually with his sister(s) and/or mother (they were allegedly the only women on Earth at the time) and had children, who did those children fornicate with to have more children? Each other, or with their father (cain), or their mother(s) (cain's sister(s) or eve), or snakes? Maybe goats or sheep? Dinosaurs?
Some biblical interpreters say that cain was the son of the serpent in the garden of eden. That would mean that either adam or eve were fornicating with a snake, or that cain was a purebred snake, which would also mean that cain's sister(s) and/or mother (eve) fornicated with a half snake or purebred snake and had children that were part snake, which means that whoever fornicated with them were fornicating with creatures that were part animal, let alone being incestual.
Here's some more stuff from the bible fairy tales:
Cain made love to his wife, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Enoch. Cain was then building a city, and he named it after his son Enoch. To Enoch was born Irad, and Irad was the father of Mehujael, and Mehujael was the father of Methushael, and Methushael was the father of Lamech.
Lamech married two women, one named Adah and the other Zillah. Adah gave birth to Jabal; he was the father of those who live in tents and raise livestock. His brother’s name was Jubal; he was the father of all who play stringed instruments and pipes. Zillah also had a son, Tubal-Cain, who forged all kinds of tools out of[g] bronze and iron. Tubal-Cain’s sister was Naamah.
And it goes on and on. Where did all those people and their sex partners come from, eugene? Was it from incestual fornication? Bestiality? Amazon women from Mars? An outcall service? One way or another there sure must have been a lot of promiscuous fornication going on.
Lamech married TWO women? Were they his sisters?
Hmm, and how about god knocking up mary while she was married to jospeh? jesus was a product of adultery between god and mary? Bad god. Go to your room.
According to your religious dogma, all humans are descended from people who were incestual, not married, could have fornicated with an animal (serpent, or who knows what) and were created by a god that impregnated another guy's wife. Ya know, your god must be impotent, in more ways than one, since he couldn't create his own woman and had to resort to knocking up joseph's wife (with magic of some sort?) so that he could have a son (jesus), and he stuck joseph with raising the kid and didn't even pay child support! All that "sin" going on and your god was all for it. And you religious wackos are the ones who claim to have a corner on morality.
It's really much more crazy than I have depicted here. See these for just a start on the insanity of religious bullshit stories:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cain_and_Abel
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_and_Eve
And for even more laughs, see this:
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Evils%20in%20America/fornication.htm
http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/have-we-profoundly-misunderstood-harvard-evolutionary-biologist-richard-lewontin-in-his-jan-1997-nyrb-article-billions-and-billions-of-demons/comment-page-1/#comment-404416
...eugene s says:
"The same goes with other sins, such as fornication (promiscuity)&c."
Let's take a look at some definitions of "fornication":
From: http://www.christiananswers.net/dictionary/fornication.html
“The Greek word for ‘fornication’ (porneia) could include any sexual sin committed after the betrothal contract. …In Biblical usage, ‘fornication’ can mean any sexual congress outside monogamous marriage. It thus includes not only premarital sex, but also adultery, homosexual acts, incest, remarriage after un-Biblical divorce, and sexual acts with animals, all of which are explicitly forbidden in the law as given through Moses (Leviticus 20:10-21). Christ expanded the prohibition against adultery to include even sexual lusting (Matthew 5:28).”
And from: http://christianlibrary.org/authors/Douglas_R_Young/misc/fornication.htm
The majority of our Greek authorities are generally in line with one another as to the meaning of the word fornication. Fornication is derived from the Greek word, (pornea) and refers to some form of illicit sexual intercourse in general. Fornication can be committed between a man and woman, a man and man, a woman and a woman, or a man/woman and an animal. Our English term “pornography” is also derived from this Greek word. Webster’s Comprehensive Dictionary (Encyclopedia Edition) defines fornication as “Illicit sexual intercourse of unmarried persons.” Though this term is most commonly used to describe sexual relations outside of marriage, it is not limited to unmarried people because Jesus allows “fornication” as an exception to scripturally divorce a spouse (Matt. 5:32, 19:9). Therefore, a married person can commit fornication just as an unmarried person can.
Why is Fornication Wrong?
The Bible unequivocally condemns the committing of fornication by anyone, saint or sinner alike. The apostle Paul deals with this subject on several occasions in the epistles that he penned. The Christians at Thessalonica were commanded by him to abstain from fornication (I Thessalonians 4:3). In his epistle to the churches of Galatia, he classified fornication as one of the works of the flesh that can prevent one from entering into the kingdom of God (Galatians 5:19-21). In the book of Romans he reflects upon the status of many Gentiles of the long ago when he stated,
“Wherefore God gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonor their own bodies between themselves…For this cause God gave them up to vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: and likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. Even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness…” (Romans 1:24, 26-29a).
This passage alone should be enough to convince the world that fornication and homosexuality are anything but pleasing to the eyes of the Almighty God. Nowhere does the apostle Paul deal with this problem in greater detail than in the book of I Corinthians. He deals with this problem throughout this book. In chapter 5, he deals with a particular situation of one that was committing fornication with his father’s wife. The church at Corinth had failed to properly teach, admonish, and discipline this individual. In chapter 6, Paul condemns fornication in vv. 9-20. Likewise, he deals with this problem from a different perspective in chapter 7 saying, “Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let everyman have his own wife…” (v. 2). In chapter 10:8 he warns them to avoid fornication unlike those in Numbers 25 who committed fornication with the daughters of Moab.
These passages explain to us that fornication is wrong, but what makes it wrong? There are two passages that should be discussed in order to set in order the reason that fornication is wrong. First let us notice I Timothy 5:14. Paul writes to the young preacher, “I will that younger women marry, bear children, guide the house, give none occasion to the adversary to speak reproachfully.” This is God’s plan for the woman. Notice that bearing children comes after the command to marry. Why, because the sexual relationship is confined ONLY to the marriage relationship. Sexual intercourse between two unwed persons is wrong. Second, let us go to the book of Hebrews. The penman of the book makes it clear in chapter 13:4 that “Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.” When a married person commits fornication with another, that individual has defiled his/her marriage bed. Once again, the sexual relationship is confined to married couples and married couples only!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hey eugene, were adam and eve legally married? Where did they get the license and who performed the marriage? Did they honeymoon in Las Vegas? Where did the women come from that cain and abel lusted for? Did they fornicate incestually with their mother and/or sisters? Were they married to their mother and/or sisters? Since cain allegedly killed abel, that would have left just one son of adam and eve at that time (seth came along later to join the incestual fornication fest). So, when cain fornicated incestually with his sister(s) and/or mother (they were allegedly the only women on Earth at the time) and had children, who did those children fornicate with to have more children? Each other, or with their father (cain), or their mother(s) (cain's sister(s) or eve), or snakes? Maybe goats or sheep? Dinosaurs?
Some biblical interpreters say that cain was the son of the serpent in the garden of eden. That would mean that either adam or eve were fornicating with a snake, or that cain was a purebred snake, which would also mean that cain's sister(s) and/or mother (eve) fornicated with a half snake or purebred snake and had children that were part snake, which means that whoever fornicated with them were fornicating with creatures that were part animal, let alone being incestual.
Here's some more stuff from the bible fairy tales:
Cain made love to his wife, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Enoch. Cain was then building a city, and he named it after his son Enoch. To Enoch was born Irad, and Irad was the father of Mehujael, and Mehujael was the father of Methushael, and Methushael was the father of Lamech.
Lamech married two women, one named Adah and the other Zillah. Adah gave birth to Jabal; he was the father of those who live in tents and raise livestock. His brother’s name was Jubal; he was the father of all who play stringed instruments and pipes. Zillah also had a son, Tubal-Cain, who forged all kinds of tools out of[g] bronze and iron. Tubal-Cain’s sister was Naamah.
And it goes on and on. Where did all those people and their sex partners come from, eugene? Was it from incestual fornication? Bestiality? Amazon women from Mars? An outcall service? One way or another there sure must have been a lot of promiscuous fornication going on.
Lamech married TWO women? Were they his sisters?
Hmm, and how about god knocking up mary while she was married to jospeh? jesus was a product of adultery between god and mary? Bad god. Go to your room.
According to your religious dogma, all humans are descended from people who were incestual, not married, could have fornicated with an animal (serpent, or who knows what) and were created by a god that impregnated another guy's wife. Ya know, your god must be impotent, in more ways than one, since he couldn't create his own woman and had to resort to knocking up joseph's wife (with magic of some sort?) so that he could have a son (jesus), and he stuck joseph with raising the kid and didn't even pay child support! All that "sin" going on and your god was all for it. And you religious wackos are the ones who claim to have a corner on morality.
It's really much more crazy than I have depicted here. See these for just a start on the insanity of religious bullshit stories:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cain_and_Abel
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_and_Eve
And for even more laughs, see this:
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Evils%20in%20America/fornication.htm
