1.1
kairosfocus
October 16, 2011 at 1:26 pm
Petruska:
I have pointed out step by step where there are serious points of concern with Lewontin’s claims. And, his main target is not UFO fans etc, but mainly Judaeo-Christian theists. For which, as I linked, there is some serious history on major contributions to science.
So, don’t even try that superstition strawman stunt on us. [And BTW, prayer does not belong in the same list as spoon bending or fairies. I am seeing here a profound reflection of bias and hostility amounting to outright bigotry flying the false colours of science.]
And I'm seeing a profound amount of insanity on your part, and a reflection of bias and hostility amounting to outright bigotry flying the true colors of your massive religious delusions and arrogance.
So, kindly deal with the concerns in that light.
So kindly, or better yet unkindly, shut the fuck up you pompous prick.
And if you want to debate design theory issues in addition, I suggest you start here where a survey with onward detailed discussion on key topics is laid out. As just one point, the correct contrast is nature vs art and that has been so since PLATO. The natural vs supernatural talking point Lewontin resorts to is a loaded and poisonous strawman caricature, as his terms like “demon” show, and as his unwarranted inference to irrationality shows.
So, you're saying that your god (the alleged designer) is natural then?
Your side has again crossed a serious line.
Your side is certifiably insane, and you are one of the most arrogant assholes that has ever lived.
Put up substantiation, in details, or retract and apologise, or else stand exposed as willfully persisting in poisonous misrepresentation.
Hey gordo, go fuck yourself with a rusty rasp.
For, that is what Lewontin has made, and it is what Coyne, the US NAS and the US NSTA back up. Elsewhere the NCSE and some of its leading spokespeople sing off the same hymn sheet.
No one is more poisonous that you are gordo. You are downright toxic. The NAS, NSTA, and NCSE don't give a rat's ass about what you think should be done. How does it feel to be completely unimportant to science?
GEM of TKI
1.1.1.1
kairosfocus
October 16, 2011 at 4:00 pm
Dr Liddle
Do you really want to go down the road of abusive associations that is being made?
Do you have a telephone pole up your ass?
I suggest to you that C S Lewis is correct. Prayer is REQUEST and cannot be experimented on. For you are dealing with a Person, not a machine or mechanism, and the circumstances of an experiment will simply fail of the first principle of prayer: we must not ask amiss.
Prayer is a farcical delusion.
If you are interested in addressing the issue of serious answers to serious prayers, go talk with the people who have serious relationships with God. You may find this Rex Gardner BMJ article here helpful in setting a few bent ideas — not Uri Geller’s spoons — straight.
Serious answers to serious prayers? ROFLMAO! You're seriously fucked up! Hey gordee, if prayer works, why haven't your prayers been answered regarding getting the dick and brain and courage you were born without?
And, pardon, but there are fourteen serious concerns on the table in a context where you have in my opinion done me a serious injustice. highly questionable attitudes towards and assertions about prayer do not help to resolve the serious matters you have joined others in putting on the table.
And pardon (not really), but you're a bloviating gutless gasbag. Everything you say is an injustice to sanity.
Kindly, take the time to address them directly, in the context of the similar views of Sagan, the observation that this is a dominant view among relevant scientific elites, the public assertions of Coyne, and the positions taken by the US NAS and the US NSTA, as further indicators of how common, pervasive and serious these problems are.
Kindly take your arrogant gasbag-iness and jump off a tall cliff, and the sooner the better.
GEM of TKI
2.1
kairosfocus
October 16, 2011 at 4:04 pm
MI:
The origin of C-chemistry aqueous medium cell based life in a cosmos suspiciously fine tuned in ways that make that life possible, on the signs of functionally specific complex organisation and information involved, is a strong example of intelligent action by ART, i.e. by design. (Cf discussion here.)
blah blah blah, blah blah blah blah. Let's see you prove that the cosmos is fine tuned for life, rather than life adapting to living in the cosmos (actually just the Earth so far as is known, but likely on some other planets). And let's see you prove that "functionally specific complex organisation and information" (in the context in which you use that undefined rhetorical phrase) is actually in any living things, that it got there due to your chosen god, and that it is measurable, testable, and verifiable.
GEM of TKI
4.1.2
kairosfocus
October 16, 2011 at 4:22 pm
Let us correct:
Who's "us"? You and your inflatable jesus doll?
scientific explanations [if properly done] are, by definition, material [empirically based, testable, non-question-begging, not based on a priori impositions of materialism and progressive in light of further evidence, cf, here].
Actually, gasbag-gordo, scientific explanations don't include imaginary gods or other fairy tale beliefs. Tell me, what's "testable" about your insane religious delusions? And what is NOT "a priori" about your wacky religious beliefs that were conjured up by ancient goat molesters?
See the problems with Lewontin?
What I (and others) see is you quote mining him and conveniently leaving out key sentences that he said. Your dishonesty is gargantuan and so is your ego.
And BTW, Lewontin is plainly on record as wishing to implant the notion in the public mind that science is “the only begetter” of truth. This is a self refuting claim, as of course it is a philosophical not a scientific claim.
You really have a corn cob up your ass about Lewontin. No one is more UNscientific than you are, and you are the one with the "self refuting" claims. Your claims are neither scientific nor philosophical. They're just plain nuts.
I take it that you are conceding a key concern point, no 4, without acknowledgement that I am right and Lewontin is wrong.
You take yourself WAY too seriously gordo. Frankly, I can't think of a thing that you're right about. You really should get a life and stop obsessing about Lewontin.
You are also continuing the guilt by association and appeal to prejudices and distortions smear tactic; that’s not cricket.
Project much?
Please do better than that.
Please (not really) kill yourself.
Do you see the outlines of the culture war your side is provoking by such abusive and snide behaviour as the 14 points highlight?
Project much?
(A bit later I am going to have to get back to someone else on the subject of Lewontin’s attempt to smear “fundamentalists” by discussing a woman who doubted the TV broadcastrs from the Moon because she could not get TV from as much nearer as Dallas. Somehow, Lewontin forgot to mention that the man who sent the rockets to the Moon, Wernher von Braun, was an Evangelical Christian and Creationist. The objector in question is evidently so ill informed in his snide dismissiveness that he does not seem to be aware of what Newton said in his General Scholium to Principia on the subject of how Laws of Nature are pointers to the God of order who as cosmic Architect made and controls the orderly system of the heavens and the earth. It is of course largely Newtonian physics that sent us to the Moon.)
WHAT the fuck do von Braun's or Newton's religious beliefs have to do with rockets to the moon? And what's with all the religious crap? Don't you IDiots say that ID isn't a religious agenda? Of course that's a willful LIE, and you just want to cram your religious insanity into every aspect of EVERYTHING. Forget it gordee, science doesn't allow or accept your maniacal delusions, and never will.
6.1.1.1
kairosfocus
October 16, 2011 at 5:00 pm
BTW, despite many times repeated talking points, ID is not premised on explanatory gaps — the echo of the god of the gaps talking point is palpable in the subtext — but on inference to best explanation among known causal patterns, in light of tested, empirically reliable signs. As has been repeatedly pointed out. Kindly, re-read here [etc], again and kindly cease from repeating loaded misrepresentations (cf the implication of that beyond a certain point of willful insistence on corrected error, here) — especially, given the increasingly poisonous context as can be seen from the 14 concerns above.
ID is based on a religious and political agenda. It is promoted by crazy lunatics, like you, who think that they ARE a god. You and the other IDiots constantly spew loaded misrepresentations that go WAY beyond a certain point of willful insistence on corrected error. You have been corrected numerous times but you still cling to your asinine and insane religious beliefs, your lies, your false accusations, your UNscientific bile, your poisonous drumbeat repetitive rhetoric laced with toxic sludge, your strawmen, your ad hominems laced with immeasurable arrogance, your proselytizing and preaching laced with pompous oil of butt leakage, and your obviously incurable god complex.
GEM of TKI
6.3
kairosfocus
October 16, 2011 at 4:36 pm
Dr Liddle:
Science is about the regular pattern, not the exceptions that may happen occasionally, for good reason.
That was the view of the founders of modern science, and it is an error of making a mountain out of a molehill as well as a strawman fallacy, to ignore that history and the associated philosophy and theology, then project unto theists, that we believe in a world that is chaotic and so theism is inherently destructive to science. (If that were so, why then did Judaeo-Christian Theism play such an important role in launching modern science? We must not allow long since past sell-by date C19 anti-theistic talking points to falsely colour our understanding.)
gordo, you're totally fucking nuts. You don't know anything about science. Whether you like it or not, science does just fine without you or any of the other IDiots. Science will never, ever cater to your ridiculous demands. If it did it wouldn't be science.
Indeed, the very opposite is the case as say the classic text that God is a God of order will highlight. You will also recall my discussion here, in June, in which I pointed out why a world in which miracles and moral accountability before our Creator are possible, is a world in which there will be an overwhelming pattern of predictable order.
There you go with the god and miracle bullshit again. So much for your agenda being "scientific". By the way gordee, you OUGHT to try some of that moral accountability stuff. Being a blatant liar and con man isn't going to get you through the pearly gates. LOL
This is another poisonously laced strawman.
Pretty much everything you say is another poisonously laced strawman, or at least a bunch of insane diarrhea.
And this is of course precisely a main point of concern no 14.
It is high time that there was some frank admission by Darwinist advocates that there is a poisonous pattern of notions and talking points that Lewontin has so strikingly exemplified, a pattern that needs to be exposed, acknowledged as misinformed and poisonous, and withdrawn, with amends made for some serious damage that has been done to real people in real circumstances. Including motivating the sort of bigotry, contempt and outright hostility or even hate that has led to inexcusable actions such as career busting and threats, including of course those made in recent months against my family.
Oh shut up, you lying gasbag. You and your IDiot cohorts are the ones guilty of that shit and you are ALL of the vile things that you accuse Darwinists and others of. And there you go again with a GIGANTIC LIE about your family being threatened. Come on gordo, PROVE that I threatened your family. Otherwise, retract every lie you've told in regard to it and prominently and profusely apologize to me here, on UD, and on your websites. Where your "moral accountability", gordo-the-lying-scumbag-bible-thumper?
Poisoning and polarising the atmosphere like Lewontin et al have plainly done comes at a terrible price.
Your poisonous and polarizing insanity and arrogance certainly exact a terrible price on everything and everyone you come into contact with. The "cosmos" is worse off because of your existence. Luckily, you're temporary.
It is high time to do better than that.
It's high time you get hit hard by a very big truck.
GEM of TKI
http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/have-we-profoundly-misunderstood-harvard-evolutionary-biologist-richard-lewontin-in-his-jan-1997-nyrb-article-billions-and-billions-of-demons/
