18.2.1
DrBot
September 13, 2011 at 5:13 am
The real issue surely is where the first non supernatural designer came from. We can see that humans can design things, and hypothesise that they might be capable of designing some new form of life, but that doesn’t answer the question of human origins. If we posit another non supernatural designer (one that operates within the universe) as the designer of life on earth then we still need to account for that designers origins in terms of non supernatural causes. We can’t keep invoking other designers, it has to stop somewhere, either with a non intelligent non supernatural cause like complex chemistry producing replicators, or by invoking a prime mover operating outside our own laws, which has to be super-natural.
I definitely see Barry’s challenge as one for the ID movement rather than mainstream science.
18.2.1.1
kairosfocus
September 13, 2011 at 5:19 am
Nope, it is whether it is required to design C-chemistry, cell based life, one would have to break or supersede the known laws of the cosmos; i.e. resort to the super-natural as understood on a common-sense basis — a designer BEYOND the observed cosmos. Cf. 13 above. And the challenge is to the rhetors who have persisted in a talking point despite repeated correction by design thinkers [right from the very first design theory technical work, TMLO], year after year.
18.2.1.1.1
DrBot
September 13, 2011 at 5:38 am
I don’t quite understand your reply. I don’t have an issue with the idea that an intelligent agent, operating within the laws of the universe could design life, and I don’t think many scientists would have a problem with that. It is just that positing such a designer begs the question over the origins of that designer. If an alien designed life on earth then how did that alien come to exist, or is it designers all the way down?
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gordo, every word you type is just more destructive of your own beliefs. You're so determined to win every argument that you'll even attack and destroy your own beliefs to do so. You are a seriously stupid and delusional IDiot.
DrBot
September 13, 2011 at 5:13 am
The real issue surely is where the first non supernatural designer came from. We can see that humans can design things, and hypothesise that they might be capable of designing some new form of life, but that doesn’t answer the question of human origins. If we posit another non supernatural designer (one that operates within the universe) as the designer of life on earth then we still need to account for that designers origins in terms of non supernatural causes. We can’t keep invoking other designers, it has to stop somewhere, either with a non intelligent non supernatural cause like complex chemistry producing replicators, or by invoking a prime mover operating outside our own laws, which has to be super-natural.
I definitely see Barry’s challenge as one for the ID movement rather than mainstream science.
18.2.1.1
kairosfocus
September 13, 2011 at 5:19 am
Nope, it is whether it is required to design C-chemistry, cell based life, one would have to break or supersede the known laws of the cosmos; i.e. resort to the super-natural as understood on a common-sense basis — a designer BEYOND the observed cosmos. Cf. 13 above. And the challenge is to the rhetors who have persisted in a talking point despite repeated correction by design thinkers [right from the very first design theory technical work, TMLO], year after year.
18.2.1.1.1
DrBot
September 13, 2011 at 5:38 am
I don’t quite understand your reply. I don’t have an issue with the idea that an intelligent agent, operating within the laws of the universe could design life, and I don’t think many scientists would have a problem with that. It is just that positing such a designer begs the question over the origins of that designer. If an alien designed life on earth then how did that alien come to exist, or is it designers all the way down?
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gordo, every word you type is just more destructive of your own beliefs. You're so determined to win every argument that you'll even attack and destroy your own beliefs to do so. You are a seriously stupid and delusional IDiot.
